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Date:      12-Sep-98 05:04 +0200
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Subject:   Author "Hare Krishna's in America" interviewed
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Dr. Burke Rochford is interviewed on Show # 25 by Kalakanta dasa
$15+$3 USA $15+$10 in PAL outside of USA
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Interview for Hare Krishna TV on May 17, 1997 of Burke
Rochford Ph.D a Professor at Middlebury College conducted by
Kalakanta dasa


Interviewer....today we are very pleased to introduce you to Dr. Burke
Rochford of Middlebury College in Vermont Would you tell us about your
publications and your special field of studies?

Dr. Rochfield...I am a sociologist by training and my specialties in that
field are the sociology of religions and the study of social movements and for
the last 20 years I have been studying the Hare Krishna movement in the United
States and increasingly world wide.

Interviewer..your teaching career in Vermont is in the field of Sociology?

Dr. Rochfield..yes I teach sociology courses there mostly in terms of
religions but in other areas as well

Interviewer....I understand you recently completed an international survey in
studying the Hare Krishna movement.?

Dr. Rochfield. yes, I was asked by the leaders of the movement to help them in
coming to an assessment about the life situations, attitudes, of the
movement's world wide membership and in kind of a self analysis the movement
has been involved with. To be more responsive to it's membership. So I was
involved with what amounts to massive undertaking of surveying devotees in
both North America and around the world. Actually over 2000 devotees took part
in that particular study.

Interviewer...and these are people from Africa India to Europe

Dr. Rochfield. interrupts and all sorts of people as well its not just people
living in temples. I think one of the misconceptions of the Hare Krishna
movement certainly in this country is that devotees are living in temples and
are cut off from the world and somehow are not citizens really of the world
but in fact that is not the case at all increasingly this is a congregational
movement that looks very much like many kind of Christian communities. Where
the congregation supports the church and people working and living in the
community. And that now typifies the movement certainly in this country and
increasingly throughout the world so that is an image I think that needs to be
set aside of the Hare Krishnas as a cult cut off from the world.
It now represents one more congregational denominational movement. within the
United States and increasingly around the world

Interviewer..so you are a trained academic. You are not a member of the
movement

Dr. Rochfield.... Yes I am . I am not a member of the Hare Krishnas.

Interviewer...but you have engaged in an extensive study of it membership all
over the world

Dr. Rochfield..as I say over a period of time I began my research in Los
Angeles as a graduate student at UCLA and from that research ultimately
produced a dissertation and that dissertation was reworked into a book called
Hare Krishna in America and that particular book dealt with the movements
early history particularly in the 70's and early 80's in its efforts to
establish itself in this country. More recent work I have been doing is to
look at issues that I think are more central to the movement in the 90's which
is the development of family and children . How that has changed the nature of
the movement in North America and I think quite frankly that many of those
changes have been associated with family as in other Christian churches the
way that providing for families and providing for children has built a
congregation and built a community. That looks very American many important
respects

Interviewer....does this mean that the Indian philosophy that the Hare Krishna
teaches has become westernized and turned into something else?

Dr. Rochfield......I don't think so, I don't think the philosophy has changed
much. The practicalities of peoples life's...has just like in the Christian
church. In the beginnings of the church people were fully committed. There was
a kind of sectarian quality to that Also in this Movement to establish itself
and get committed followers who were preaching and building the movement. That
was a phase that was there in many religious groups and now that it is
established and people are having families and having to maintain those
families that involves them more and more in the outside society. But in that
society they are still living there are Krishna Conscious beliefs in much the
same form certainly as they always have but the necessities and practicalities
of their life's have made that expression of the philosophy somewhat
different.

Interviewer...Tell us what you have found about Hare Krishna family values....

Dr. Rochfield......I actually think that in many respects religious families
as we see in this country who have great respect for family and the values
that are associated with families. I think Hare Krishna parents are very
similar to my own concerns about my own children. How do we raise our children
in an environment where they grow up as world people? as educated people who
can contribute to society and communities in which they live. And these are
the preoccupation's of Hare Krishna members today. And as I say I think in
those ways I think they are much more like the rest of America than most
people realize. We often think that because someone is costumed differently
than the rest of us and they are wearing dhotis and saris that somehow
represents that they are completely and utterly different than us. And in
fact,of course, they are more like us than they are different than us. But yet
we misconstrue that by thinking that their appearance suggests that there is
something really radically different. And that is not true and now the case
increasingly is that many devotees wear the dhotis but certainly in their
everyday life's having to work and so forth many Americans don't realize this
but they are working side by side in may cases with people that are religious
people be they Christian , be they Hindu be they Hare Krishna's and that is
just the nature of American society.

Interviewer....so your saying that the Hare Krishna philosophy allows the
adherents to integrate with the society

Dr. Rochfield....absolutely

Interviewer...do the practitioners of Krishna consciousness get benefit from
their practices that you have observed in your studies

Dr. Rochfield.... well I have no doubt that thiers is a spiritual path and in
the same ways that Christians are realized in their pursuits of Christianity
that they practice moral principles in keeping with Christianity that they are
making spiritual progression. In the same way this Movement even though the
practices may be somewhat different although many of them are very similar
that people in this movement are also spiritually benefiting becoming more
moral people and pursuing and making advancement down the path to their own
spiritual realization. I don't think that make them distinct from any other
spiritual group that we see in America quite frankly.

Interviewer...could you see Hare Krishna becoming a mainstream American
religion?

Dr. Rochfield.....It already is. It is becoming that increasingly to the
extent that this is a Hindu denomination that has a presence in this country.
It certainly not of the conventional faiths so it is limited in a certain
respect. But it is taking its place increasingly in part because of its own
development and the kind of acceptance this movement is beginning to get
increasingly and I think it will take its place and is taking its place as one
of the broader denominations with It is in fact its owns origins are as a
Hindu based group and Hinduism I think all of us would not matter what we
think about different religion faiths recognize that this is a legitimate
religion tradition.

Interviewer....generally Hinduism is considered a very polytheistic
idolatriest tradition by many people in the judo Christian culture. Is that
your understanding of the philosophy that the Krishna conscious believers are
taught?

Dr. Rochfield......noteing the case of this movement. Hinduism is a very
diverse religion> In the case of the Hare Krishna's as we see them in this
country(USA), it recognizes a single God as do Christians. It is not by any
means in the same way that people recognize that when going into a church
there are spiritual things that are recognized, there is Jesus on the cross
that people recognize is having spiritual power In the same way as you walk
into a hare Krishna temple there are deities in that temple that have the same
kind of spiritual power that allow people to express their own faith to
express their own commitment and to benefit spiritually because of that. So I
think again that what we see in America in the case of the Hare Krishna's
there are many parallels with Christianity and the differences certainly are
there but we are not dealing with something that is radically different



Interviewer....It has been twenty years since the founder of the movement
passed away, Srila Prabhupada has the sustained growth of the movement or at
least its existence created an impression in you as a sociologist that this is
a viable religious experience or a diverse path

Dr. Rochfield..... I think a major issue here is as many movements began there
is a charismatic figure that becomes the centerpiece. In fact the motivating
force the life force of those movements in the early days In the case of the
Hare Krishna's Srila Prabhupada certainly represented that. I think that the
question of weather their faith is an enduring one and perhaps in fact even a
legitimate one has to do with what happens at the point that the founding
leader dies and weather it does endure in fact. It s not to say that in all
examples really that there are crisis that follow the departure , the death ,
of the founder and there certainly was in this movement and there were years
of difficulty. But the movement has endured and in fact has in some sense even
say is even stronger now. Certainly the devotees faith is stronger just
because of the passage of time and the practices they have done. I have no
question in my own mind at this point that this movement will go forward in
time. Its dealt with the crisis of the loss of the founding Charismatic leader
and I thin in time it will continue to progress. The question is how it is
going to progress not whether it is going to progress

Interviewer....what are some of the main challenges you see toward the
movements progress

Dr. Rochfield....I think the big thing now is sustaining its communities as it
becomes more a congregational movement. the center is obviously the temple but
the relationships with people just like the relationships the broader society
become less personal less intense, people become more scattered. People are
absorbed in their own everyday life's. and just the sheer difficulty that all
of us in America feel just to sustain is something devotees is facing. SO I
think the struggle for them right now it is this community that they worked so
hard to form how can they maintain it in such a way that it is fulfilling. I
mean religion is fulfilling spiritually but there is s social quality to it in
a way that I think Americans many of us miss the idea or miss that we have
lost something and I think many of us feel that we have lost the sense of
community and the enduring quality of that and the way that benefits us as
individuals I think these are issues that certainly do confront the movement.
now.

Interviewer..... Do you feel there is a strong sense of community in the
various Krishna centers that you have studied?

Dr. Rochfield....I think so, but is changed. when you live in a more communal
form of organization where people are dealing with each other day in and day
out everyday 24 hours a day seven days a week there is s sense of connection
there that is quite different than now people having to work outside maintain
their families working nine to five jobs paying mortgages and all the other
things that all of us are doing and that has an effect. I think the corrosive
effect is on that American communities is also facing that we have become much
more individuals and I think our collective kind of orientation is something
that has eroded and to some degree that has happened in this movement as well.

Interviewer...do you feel that the practices of Krishna consciousness which
involve congregational chanting lend themselves well to a sustainable
community

Dr. Rochfield...I think it does, Its not just the situation where people come
together on Sunday meet together and then scatter into their own households
This is something devotees most of them are involved with on a rather routine
basis. That doesn't mean everyone is there everyday but they are there with
regularity and contributing to their temple in way that most Christian faiths
would be delighted to think their congregations were contributing to them.
there certainly is a degree of interaction there that I think is taking place
plus their is an unconventional faith and you just don't melt into the
Christian culture . there are forces coming into play that also forge people
together. independently of the ongoing social process that takes place within
the community itself



Interviewer.....Now in his book The Wonder that was India, Indianalogist Dale
Bashim said that the Krishna Consciousness Movement represented the first time
since the days of the Roman empire when an eastern religion was actively being
practiced on the streets of a Western country What is you impression of this
cultural transplant that has taken place from East to West in the from of the
Hare Krishna movement.

Dr. Rochfield... Iskcon's founder came to this country in the middle 1960's
the time of cultural unrest in America. As part of the counter culture that
was developing at that particular time that people were looking for
alternative values, alternative lifestyles to American culture. There was a
natural infinity for what Prabhupada was teaching and the searching kind of
activity that people were involved in , whether that was politically,
religiously, I think right from the beginning there was a searching for
something that was an alternative and I think the values of the East, the
religious practices of the East were something that were very attractive. I
think even today there is a certain kind of attraction we see many people now
are vegetarians, this is a movement that first and foremost are vegetarian
there are elements of this movement and s religious group in things that are
developing in our own culture I think people are looking for alternatives to
western values even now. We begin to understand the way this culture is not
satisfying us completely. that their are things that we are missing in our own
life's and I think that alternatives to that in the form of eastern religions
such as Hare Krishna is a viable alternative for many people

interviewer... When I converted to Hare Krishna twenty-five years ago it was a
very radical step within my social group my family,. do you feel that future
members or even members now are likely to encounter such feelings

Dr. Rochfield....much less for a couple of reasons. When you joined 30 some
years ago, you were finding yourself in a totalistic world moving into a
communal context and religious context that were very controversial. We were
living in a culture at that time that was concerned about the so-called cults
and the evils associated with that. Now we are in a very different climate
both internal to the movement and the broader society. I think internal to the
movement now there are people that are quite legitimately are congregational
members. So nobody is having to make a decision that is a major change in
their lifes. They can simply live as the have always lived in the sense that
they are working, educating themselves, raising families...Yes they are taking
on a new religion that is making certain kinds of demands in terms of their
own values and since of morality, but basically there is s space that has been
created there so that they can continue in their life's in much the same way
as they have previously. In the earlier days there was more of a break and
that was what many young people parents was concerned about and society was
concerned about. I think now that simply is not the case. the other thing is I
think attitudes about religious groups have change the cult hysteria is not as
prevalent now and I think there is more of an acceptance of Hare Krishna
members than there have been previously I think because of society change and
also internal change that this movement is not nearly as controversial as it
once was

interview....that people can continue in their given situation pretty much and
practice Krishna consciousness if the path of Krishna consciousness as you
identified is a spiritual path akin to Christianity and others , but it is a
little foreign why do people want to take up Krishna Consciousness

Dr. Rochfield...There is a spiritual market place out there. Sociologists have
spoken of it in very much those terms. There are religious forms that
different people relate to in different ways. There is part of the spiritual
market place that is going to appeal to a subsection of people who are looking
for realization, looking for spiritual practice. looking to become involved
and developing their own religious interests. this movement no doubt is going
to attract some segment of that population. Obviously the Christian culture
most people are going to see that pursuit in Christian terms, but some people
have found that is not satisfying for them due to past experience or they have
an interest in things Eastern or different or unconventional, some of those
people are going to be attracted to this movement. Plus there are very
attractive features of the movement itself. For example, you walk into a
temple it is something that is a different experience, you are welcome in that
place, you are treated to a cultural experience as well as a religious
experience. I think many people find that attractive, although some may find
it not attractive. Many people do find it attractive.

interviewer...in your study of the Hare Krishna movement have you found that
the practices taught an presented to the public are consistent with those have
been practiced in India for thousands of years.

Dr. Rochfield... I think the average American look at this movement as
something that was hatched up in the present and it doesn't have any
tradition. It is not authentic.. Actually we are talking about one of the
worlds great faiths. Nobody in America would question the authenticity of
Christianity and similarly in this movement we see it roots firmly within
Hinduism. It a sect within Hinduism. Its scripture is recognized by scholars
world wide. Most people have at least heard of the Bhagavada gita. In
Christian terms this represents a bible. I have to be running to another
appointment. thank you.
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